The Root Causes of Neuroinflammation | Eboni Cornish, MD

Dr. Eboni Cornish joins the show to discuss neuroinflammation, brain fog, SPECT imaging, root-cause medicine and practical strategies for improving brain health. Together, we explore how environmental toxins, gut health, infections, trauma and lifestyle factors can contribute to cognitive symptoms—and why individualized care is essential for lasting healing.

We dive into:

• Neuroinflammation and the root causes of brain fog
• How SPECT imaging can uncover hidden patterns in brain health
• The connection between the gut, immune system and brain
• Mold, Lyme disease, histamine and environmental triggers of cognitive dysfunction
• Neurofeedback, mitochondrial support and other tools for brain recovery
• Why restrictive diets don't work for every patient
• Supporting children, adults and neurodivergent patients with personalized care
• Perimenopause, hormone changes and their impact on cognitive health
• Practical, affordable lifestyle strategies that support brain health and longevity
• Why meeting patients where they are leads to better long-term outcomes

🕒Chapters

00:00 Meet Dr. Eboni Cornish

01:10 Is Your Brain "On Fire"?

02:22 The Hidden Causes of Brain Fog

03:36 Looking Inside the Brain with SPECT Imaging

06:09 Can Brain Damage Be Reversed?

07:30 Why Some Patients Never Get Better

09:44 Neurofeedback and Brain Retraining

10:13 Mast Cells, Histamine & Inflammation

11:11 Supporting the Brain Through Mitochondrial Health

12:24 Why Restrictive Diets Can Backfire

13:41 The Importance of Meeting Patients Where They Are

14:59 Helping Children Expand Their Diets

17:58 Perimenopause, Hormones & Brain Health

20:22 The Reality of Food Access and Health

24:35 Making Healthy Eating Practical

26:08 Progress Over Perfection

28:11 The Foundations of Brain Health

29:23 Functional Medicine Doesn't Have to Be Expensive

30:13 Final Takeaways

🔗 Dr. Alex Carrasco, MD

https://nourishmedicine.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dralexcarrasco/

🔗 Dr. Eboni Cornish, MD

https://www.drebonicornish.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.ebonicornish/

https://www.amenclinics.com/team/eboni-cornish-md/ 

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Transcript

Hello and welcome to the vibrant wellness longevity podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Alex Carrasco, and we are live from the Omni Barton Creek Resort in Austin, Texas. Today on the podcast, our guest is Dr. Eboni Cornish. Dr. Cornish is a highly regarded physician providing integrative medicine services to a diverse global patient community. She currently serves as the functional medical director of Amen Clinics East Coast Division. She specializes in autoimmune disease, Lyme disease, environmental toxicity, gut imbalances, neurology, and various other chronic conditions. Applying a holistic approach, Dr. Cornish identifies the root cause of health issues within the body's biological systems, offering comprehensive treatment to adults and children. Dr. Cornish, welcome. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Oh, thank you for the invitation. This is great. Oh my gosh.

Well, I am so excited to hear about your work because I feel like you do something really amazing and special. And I know that your specialty and expertise is neuroinflammation. So can we start there?

Yeah, so neuroinflammation in general means your brain is on fire, right? And you could have things like brain fog, a little bit of even fatigue. You can have some hormone imbalances, even mood problems, right? Because mental health is brain health. That's why I love it so much. The brain controls everything. And so when people think of neuroinflammation, we're like, oh, just like you said, what does that mean? It's becoming a buzzword, right? It is, but it's always should have been a buzzword. You know, it's a body word, right? And we suffered for years. And so then when you have someone, even as simple as I'm tired all the time, I can't remember what my keys are. Those can be early clues until you get to the point where cognitive problems are so severe. So then you gotta look at the root causes and that's one of the things I love is kinda doing that detective word to figure out why do you have neural inflammation? Like what does it mean? And then I get to look at their brains and say, ah, that's why.

I think that in a patient population, most of us see patients with brain fog. I think that's one of my top complaints in my patient population, that and fatigue. So tell me about the work that you're doing and who is benefiting from your work. It sounds like you work with a range of patients and range of conditions but I think from what you're saying, neuroinflammation is something that might affect the general population more than we think.

Exactly. when I'm doing that detective work and looking for those root causes, common causes include things like mold toxicity. People don’t realize how toxic this environment is, gut imbalances, right? Because the gut and the brain are connected and whatever you're putting your gut is going to your brain, right? Infection. So one of the things I work a lot with are patients who have chronic infections, especially because I'm a treasure of eyelats, and we're a Lyme organization who we treat patients who have chronic Lyme disease. And I see that so often people showing up with lung COVID. And then when you get to the babies, you think about autoimmune diseases caused by strep throat and other infections, the pans, and pandas, that's another one of my specialties. So it's really just doing that digging, but more importantly, you've got to figure out after you get the labs is that the only culprit, right? Because everything's multi-factorial, right? Exactly. Everything affects everything, affects everything.

Exactly. It makes it feel sometimes overwhelming for a clinician.

Yes, it does. And it's kind of like you have to prioritize. And that's why I love looking at brains.

Right. I want to hear more about that. So you use SPECT imaging, yes. Can you tell us what that is?

All right. So, SPECT imaging is a 3D look at your brain. Like I get excited to talk about it. It's like I wanna see your brain. But no, seriously, it's like looking, it's like a functional study where we can tell areas in your brain that aren't working well, that are working too hard. And we can also look at inflammatory patterns. So with the clinic and Dr. Amen’s methods, they focus a lot on brain health as mental health. Well I step in and I look at more of the root causes and that's how I started learning about SPECT scan because it's like well it's not just mental disorders. It could be these underlying neuroinflammatory causes and we have patterns on the SPECT scan to show you that. So that's so amazing.

So is that an MRI scan or what is it like when you do one of these tests? 

So it's similar, the process is similar to that of an MRI or CT but way less, sorry, way less contrast, okay? And so you go over a machine, we insert a small amount of trace or material and then on the computer we can see that imaging studies are really at the top, the left or right in the bottom of the brain which is where you can get the most exciting news because that's what we're looking at, the areas responsible for focus and ADHD and  cerebellar function with cognition. And even on the top of the brain too, like I see a lot of patients who are like, oh, they have neuroinflammation symptoms, but it's due to like a traumatic brain injury that they didn't tell you about, right?

Or maybe they didn't know, right?

Exactly. So that's why it's kind of that next layer of information when patients cause these symptoms some neuroinflammation can be nebulous.

Absolutely, very insidious, very nebulous, hard to figure out exactly. And then as you help people, do you see SPECT scans change? Oh God yes, yeah.

 So what I typically do because I collaborate with a lot of colleagues like a lot of my colleagues will send patients just for a Cornish neuroinflammatory scan work up and I also have like a two week intensive program where I kidnap you, right? You come to rest in from all over the world, You get your intensive treatment, you get your lab results, but more importantly, you get that brain-SPECT scan. And sometimes we'll do the SPECT scans at the beginning because we've already got the vibrant testing, right? We already have neurological testing and infections mold all the great tests you do. We have a package for that for those patients who come from two weeks. And then yes, you have abnormal labs, but what does that mean? And so that's where the scan before and after is so important because you want to know if what you're doing is working.

So in a two-week period, you can see a change in a scan?

So usually it's more the people who go for the two weeks. They might get a repeat scan in more like six, got it. It's not overnight.

Right. Pretty quick in six moths.

Yeah, yeah, it's very encouraging. It is. And it just lets you know if you're on the right path. So it's pretty cool because I'll have friends and colleagues who will send me their live page and say, hey, Cornish, they're still sick. They're still having brain fog. They may have went through years of treatment or a mold patient who moved out her house and threw away all her furniture, and then I get a SPECT Scan and I'm like, ooh. You have PTSD on top of this.

 Interesting.

 You might have sleep apnea, right? You may have ADHD and didn't know it. Or your body might be such in a fight or flight, this is called the limbic system where it's like so intense, so anxious that it doesn't even feel safe to heal. So you have to work on different strategies, right? Because it's brain health to calm that person down so they respond to the treatment.

Wow. So just from imaging the brain, you can identify things that they can very specifically work on to help them heal overall.

Yes. And it's so important because the people who I see, they've been to five and six other doctors, right? So they know they have these labs for inflammation, they already have done that work up. And then when I see the brain sometimes, i have patients, they're not even showing signs of inflammation in the brain, right? It's just like we said, those other imbalances and then you have to say, wait, this isn't mold, this is a concussion protocol, this person needs. This isn't just infections, this kiddo might need some what we call neural modulation. And that means things like biofeedback where you go somewhere and they're putting all your brain waves or they function synchronously, right? Or it could be things like trauma therapy, right? EMDR because how traumatic are our patients have been sick for so long? It's true. I would have PTSD, right? Yeah. You did this miss my lifestyle. I mean helping

I mean health anxiety is a very real thing.

So real, and like I said, the most classic case because I'm sure you've seen these very sensitive patients they have 80 bottles of supplements that they couldn't tolerate. And you're like, what's wrong? And you give them a drop. They're hurt and they fall apart, right! When I first saw that, like... I was like, what field is this? Yeah. I'm entering. Right. But then looking at the brain, I saw that there was the limbic system that was in fight or flight constantly. So will you do limbic reprogramming? Yes. So that's one of my favorite things to do. So with the kids, I might give them watches like Apollo neuro. That's like a watch where you can program. Usually the kids can deal with that. And it just vibrates, right? Exactly. And then for adults, I might do different training programs. because those are not oral, right? So they might do, I might do a anti-hopper or a primal trust or reorges. So many programs that are great right now. So I might do one of those. Or I might do some of those neuromodulating programs that I told you before. 

Like the Neurofeedback, Exactly. It’s so powerful, I use it a lot for my patients and they don't realize.

And so when I'm looking there and get this in that area of the brain, that limbic system, That's where a lot of those mast cells are. So we're treating those patients with histamine problems. Yeah, mast cell activations in general.

Are you seeing a ton of increase in histamine issues? So many. So many patients and I think it's because the world is so toxic right now.

And so many of us are in that fight or flight. Yeah.

See it all the time. That's fascinating. And are you doing other interesting interventions for your pans or pandas patients? And you know, are you using, what are you using to help, you know, just decrease inflammation without I know that there's different strategies for people but are you using any other like really interesting cutting edge tools or technology?

Yeah. So some of the things, you know, outside of determining what's going on. I do a lot of mitochondria support if people can tolerate it. Yeah. I do a lot of work with sauna, if people can tolerate it, not necessarily my histamine patients. They might need, I always tell patients, be careful being too restrictive because everyone would be like, I'll do low histamine. But so many foods have less histamine in them than others. But we do the basics, right? And we also do breathing, deep breathing work. That's another thing. Yeah. To calm that limbic system. I do a lot of course like herbals that a lot of us do like anti-inflammatory herbals like the curcumin and then the cocutens, glutathione. but I really like IV NAD. Okay. You know, for a lot of those patients, IV NAD.

Helps mitochondrial resilience. Resilience, yes.

 Much.

And Myers Cocktail, giving them those B vitamins so much. I don't know if you see this, but I see it often I have a cohort of patients where I can't ever get their nutrient levels up with supplementation and I just have to bypass and give them Myers. Yeah. And it's really effective. It is. And I'm sure that's all gut issues but gut takes a little while to heal so it's a good adjunct as you're bridging, right? It is.

It is and I think that's one thing that doctors don't consider because even though I treat patients with complex chronic illnesses, I always start with the basics. Right. It's like, okay, are you sleeping? Are your hormones okay? And then when you get to the gut so many patients have trauma just dealing with all the dietary restrictions they have to do and so now I kind of find myself focusing on what to eat. So most of my patients I see now I go through I have this tool and I'm like, alright, what don't you like? What do you like? This one kiddo said, I can only eat Takis. I said, okay, let's find a healthy alternative to that, right? Let's look at what you will miss if we make a strategy and tell me and I'll make an alternative. Like I sometimes even look at restaurants aat some of those alternatives and it takes baby steps and it takes forgiveness and I think so many times as functional doctors were like, gluten free, dairy free, sugar free, yeah, Forever. Forever. Low histamine, Ah. And then patients freak out.

It's stressful. 

So stressful. We're causing probably more harm than good, but you still want to reestablish a microbiome. I think doing the supplements and work is fine, but we got to make sure our patients feel like they're being heard as well. And you make a strategy that they can do long-term.

 I think you're making such a good point. You know, when I started in my practice many moons ago, I kind of was on that Gung Ho bandwagon of, you know, we're gonna eliminate all this stuff. We do all that's so rigorous. And at this point in my practice, I'm like, that is just very hard. It's very, very hard to sustain that for a long period. Time's probably not healthy. Probably contributing to some Ortharexia. Yes. But at the same time, and at the same time, so how do you meet patients in the middle? You sometimes patients will come to me and they'll say, I didn't do the things that we talked about. And I'm like, it's okay, you know? That's okay, let's figure out what can work for you because this is not about me. This is your journey. I think sometimes as physicians, we need to remember that like, you know, not everyone can follow through with really hard core regimens,right? 

I mean we can’t either really. We try our best. You know, I think more doctors need to stand up with that. Right? You know, I did vegetarian for years. My triplets are vegetarian, my husband is. That works for them, you know, I need Omegas, I might need a little more Vitamin D but that’s what works for me. And so like you said earlier really listening to your patients, because we know what works. If all my patients could be gluten free, sugar free, they'll get better faster, I'm sure, right? So you envision that, but you also have to make those steps and especially cause I treat so many adults and kids on the spectrum, right?

And there are already picky eaters and you can't restrict them even more.

 No we can't and I have a lot of patient might have eating disorders, so that's what I mean.

That bad is so true because I've had a good amount of patients with eating disorders and you really can't take gluten away. Yeah, even if you know that it's reactive, it's very hard to because then that might trick her a whole other issue. 

Exactly. So that's when I get like one of my favorite things I did. Um, I had a kid. He was eight. He was on spectrum. He ate chicken nuggets and fries. And that was it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's what he wanted. Yeah. So I came up with some strategies with mom and dad. We looked up alternatives to chicken nuggets and they finally got a recipe. Yeah. That was similar to the best. But it's exactly. And then we got him some frozen berries on toothpicks, and like fruit in like cartoon shapes. Started eating some fruit. And then we were able to sneak in some supplements. You know, give him some amino globulins, get that bifidobacterium up, and then his palate widened. But it was all about taking the steps so that long-term patients can do what it is we want them to do and heal their gut, right?

And I think to your point, you know, don't we all do better when we're encouraged rather than when we're like things were taken away from us?

Exactly. Because I'm a very spiritual person. I always tell patients being with these chronic illnesses takes a spiritual mental journey. It stresses out families and couples. And so if you have the faith and just take that one step and you know doctors like us are working we're doing the work. We're gonna do the digging. We're gonna figure out why you're not well. But you just got to go through that journey. And I feel like a lot of doctors, we get in this hat because we are so smart. We go to all these conferences, right? Like this one, we learn so many good tools. We know it gets you better, but it's like how every patient is different. So we have to individualize how like you said even with eating disorders and picky patients even, how to get them there. A truck driver who's going 18 miles every five minutes is going to start at the fast food station. So let me give you a list of healthier fast food options.

Yeah, and I think that sometimes in our space we're so as a community, you know, so hardlined or quick to judge like oh how could you ever eat that? You know, like in that and of itself is it's dangerous I think.

It is. And especially when people are going through hormonal changes right and neural inflammation. I'm in that period of perimenopause phase. So a lot of... me too. There's a lot of those food you're like mmm that looks good but I know it's bad yeah so you have to meet patients like you said look at the whole body look at their brain I always show patients okay this is an inflamed brain right now let’s look at your we know there things we can do this is a gut we had your gut zoomer we know we have some raw problems here and the gut and brain are connected but let's take you know we got a focus on this and when people see that and they know why they made those appointments with us right they're they're like okay, I can do it

 I'm gonna try but you got to think about perimenopausel. Oh, yes That's what I was going to ask you because I mean I'm in my mid 40s and I'm like, oh, that just fell out of my brain. What happened? Oh my god. Yeah, how are you? How are you if you're also in perimenopause it sounds like yeah. How are you? How is that experience changed your perspective? You know with the way especially with the way that you currently practice? 

 So yes, I'm also my late 40s you know 50s coming a few years and so I share my journey. So I made a whole Instagram series now. It's called a day-in-a-life of a doctor in perimenopause. And I keep it real like yes, I wake up at 3 a.m. Sometimes yeah, yes before I see my patients I might need to take my supplements because I'm a little foggy.

Yes, my husband's chewing bothers me. 

 Oh my god, right? Everything about my husband is about to be on days very bit of process. You're keeping very close to my ear. But it's okay and it's okay to be human because it happens and it makes you like relate more to your patients cuz you're like I know it sucks, I know it sucks. So then I just find myself trying to support other methods like I just recently started progesterone myself at night. I love it. I have to sleep. Like, how am I going to help you? You need to sleep. I have big bags under my eyes, taking naps at 2 p.m., but then just letting people know that it's normal. Doctors are human and I'm going to take your labs like I got all my labs checked of course. And I was like, okay this is normal. Let's I'm going to go get some glasses now because I'm getting older. I can't see you know. I'm gonna tell my husband forgive me this day if I can't remember the recipe I didn’t take all my supplements you know so it's reality.

Yeah I think it's interesting because yeah I think a lot of times as experts we elevate ourselves but it's like we're all humans going through different seasons which are challenging and have their ups in their downs you can't relate with your patients and you know they're not gonna be able to relate with you and they're not gonna they're gonna feel like well that connection wasn't made so then they can't make the therapeutic choices that are gonna benefit them. I think that therapeutic relationship is so important.

Cause you have to think, I know in my family, I never, I never talked about perimenopause or menopause or... You know what that was, and paleo or any of that. You know, I grew up in the city. I think we had mold in our house growing up, you know? I'm pretty sure we did too. And I mean, I made it. Yeah, I was a med school level kid. So it's like, okay, using those journeys, we know so much more now. The world is way more toxic than the 80s in 70s, you know, probably the 90s, right? So we just have-

 Life was easier in the 90s, wasn't it?

 It's so easy.

It wasn't spring afternoon in 1998. Oh, yes.

It would. It's so much wood. But, you know, it's just like you gotta, and even when it comes to, you know, racial disparities in financial. Yes. Eating expensive is expensive.

Yeah, you're doing it. Eating clean is very expensive.

And so I tell my patients, get frozen, you know, I tell especially college kids. I'm like, look, you can go to Walmart. You can get frozen veggies. You can get things that are pre-made. And granted it's not as wonderful as I would like for you to do, but at least it's something. And go to like, I go to farmer's markets or I go to Asian markets and I'll get produce that cheaper I dont wanna pay $10 for eggs. So you find those strategies. Find those grocery stores and take those steps because I tell you what, that cheap food that's semi healthy is much cheaper than getting more diagnostic tests, seeing more doctors, taking more prescription meds because you thought that it was too expensive for you to make those changes.

Yeah, I think one of my favorite sayings is don't let perfect be the enemy of the good, right? And so it's progress, right? So you just do the best that you can where you're at and I think that I agree with you on the racial disparity part that, you know, my heritage is Mexican and Cuban. And so it's like, number one, we've got cultural foods. So if that's hard to let go of. Exactly. You know, I remember when the paleo craze happened and I was like, I guess I'm going to go off-rice and please but it's like, that's my ancestral food and my grandparents lived to 100. So is it really bad? You know, like, it doesn't make sense but everyone says it makes sense. You know, so all these trends are really interesting, aren't they?

And I think it's now because of who's probably more toxic than how we grew up, right? And I'm the same way because I'll never forget when I had went and did all my studies in functional medicine. I thought I was so great and I went to a patient and I did exactly that. And she's like, uh, I'm Mexican, what do you mean I can't eat rice and beans? Yeah. And are you kidding? So that's why even when I told you earlier when I make these individualized plans, I'm like, okay. Well, if you have this, then have this. Right. Maybe some more guacamole, maybe some more omega fish. Maybe some more hooves with those cultural foods or take some baby steps. Absolutely. Maybe some brown rice. Yeah. You want to like it? But try it because I don't think we put that in consideration. We want, it's not a one stop shop with this.

I agree. I think the other thing too, in cultural context is eating within your family and community is so good for you. Yes. You know, I think some of my happiest memories are around the dinner table with my family and it'd be hard to be that one person that isn't partaking, you know?

And that's our patience, right? They go to restaurants and that's the one thing they tell me like, I'm at the restaurant. I can't eat with everyone else's eating or I'm at the Thanksgiving table. But I always give patience, especially being busy, right? Yeah. We have to live our lives even if we don't feel well. So I'll give them maybe food delivery program from their area that might cater to what we're trying to do right now. Because they feel better, right? When they make those changes, when they can be really compliant, but they want to keep it going forever and not have that because that's another piece of trauma. You already have neural inflammation. You know these things make you feel better but let's find this compromise. So when you go to these events or you're around your family, You don't feel like you're missing out. Exactly. And we don't put that in perspective as physicians as well. It's like, yeah, you have neuroinflammation, have hormonal changes, you have cultural differences, and this is the diet you have. So let's structure all that accordingly because I had one patient. She didn't have a grocery store 30 miles from her house. She just went to the fast field, whatever was easier. get these whole food cards or go these sorts and stock up yeah use your freezer because we don't want you to have left over so much to get mold that's

right it will not figure it out I know I do that a lot too I think with a lot of my patients I'll say okay you don't want to cook okay that's fine let's go to do you know someone has a Costco membership yes go and buy things Costco and bulk yes you can freeze them yes and then you don't have to think you don't even have to do the cooking because that can be so over woman too, especially if you're in your own flame like the last thing you want to do is do a complex recipe, right? You see them online. They're like this beautiful recipe, it's only, you know, nine steps, like are you kidding me? Even I don't want to do a nine step recipe.

And then you dont know what the flavors are, you know, I got to go buy what? Yeah. A pinch of what? Yeah. And I mean, even perimenopause. Right? That's a total kind of inflammation in general, in perimenopause as well, who feels like it. So I think you're absolutely right. I try to structure like five to 10 minute meals for patients, like, okay, look. What can you do? We can get some sweet potatoes in you and you can make, you know, whatever. We're not gonna listen to all of that. Make you some whole foods, get you some fish, that's frozen, it's better than nothing and give some steamables. It's better than nothing, right? It's better than going fast food, right? It works, it works. And then they start feeling better, they start saving money off the fast food and they realize, okay, I got more money, eat better. And it's not that hard if you take those steps.

Yeah, I think that iterative process, that slow iterative process ramp up, I think ends up being better. Tiny baby steps, and then you don't even realize that you've made this big step.

Exactly, and I think we get so consumed because we know at the microbiome we know that the brain is so important to heal so we work so hard because we study things. We see it. Just do it now. Look at the research. My patients are doing great, but not everybody can do that. And I think that's so important that we have conversations like this

because I don't hear a lot of it. No, I don't think people talk about it very much. And I think that that rigidity within our field, I think that's what turns patients away. I think so too. Yeah, because they're like, I can't do it. And I really don't want to take all these supplements always, they know and it's expensive. And I mean, yes, health is an investment and I believe in that wholeheartedly, but how do we truly serve the greater community? That's one of my bigger personal questions.

Yeah, and so I have people do a lot of supplements with food. Okay, your cumin, turmeric is great. We'll go get some turmeric, make some food, any base food with those kind of spices in it. Your sugar is high. Let's get some cinnamon. You may not never necessarily need to afford the supplement. Let's get some cinnamon. You can't digest. Let's get some apple cider vinegar. Yeah, yeah. Let's get a little bit of lemon water if you don't have histamine problems. Help you detox, you know? Help and get some veggies. Get you some cruciferous vegetables because guess what? That's going to increase glutathione in your liver. So it's like you can supplement our food derivatives. Right. Meds are food derivatives. And if you can't afford the $10, $20, you can afford the five to the best of our ability to kind of make it yourself at home.

Yeah, I was speaking with someone earlier and I was just reflecting on how we, yes, medicine is complex. We have complex patients with, you know, that require some complex therapeutic processes to help them get to the next level. And a lot of the healing that we are capable of doing is pretty simple. We just employ some simple techniques and tactics, right? So I think that it's this really interesting interplay where well if you really do focus on your sleep and you get your circadian rhythm right, and you go out and see the sun and the sunset, and you go out in the dirt, and you play in your garden or in the yard, and you run around and you move your body and you eat whole foods, and you eat drink clean water. A lot of things can improve over time.

I agree a little hard lately.

It's hard to get the foundations right, and I don't know if it's because our world is just so busy or we're distracted. I think there's also a disparity piece, but I think it's just that we are compelled to live in this very unnatural way.

Yes, and I think having those conversations with your patients are so important. When people hear the word functional medicine or perimenopause. That's for the rich, I can't do that. It's not. Things can become affordable if you allow because even with my perimenopause and menopausal patients. I do bioidentical hormones, i mean this is neuroinflammation were talking about. Yeah, but I also might say, you can’t afford that, let me give you a prescription for Prometrium or Estradiol patches. Those things that are still protective but can still get covered by insurance. So i think when we are talking about neuroinflammation, a lot of people get stuck because they think 

I can't buy our red light therapy arc bed that's $250,000.

Exactly. Well look, you live in Austin, Texas where we are today and go sit outside. It's so satisfying. It's better than kids. Start sweating, you know?

Yeah, I think we forget that there are some simple things that we can do and I talk about that all of my patients And it's not very sexy. So sometimes when I go and speak on other people's podcasts, and I just want to talk about these basic things, it doesn't feel as glamorous as the more complicated things, but it's low-hanging fruit. And it's the way that the earth and the universe was created. So we were made for this earth.

It is.

And so we should probably use it strategically, right? I agree. I agree. We speaking. Kindred spirits here.

 It's great, yeah. together. Because even like when you think about gut and brain health, I had a patient

 ask me what's the gross thing that you do? And I said a teaspoon of sauerkraut in the morning.

Yeah. That gives me that pre-biotic. She was like ew, you know, and ran off. Or like when I give my kids like kefir, things like that to get their gut going. You know it's always not. You need a $40, $50 probiotic to get you started and heal in neural inflammation. Neural inflammation could be like you said as simple as running around, getting your sweat run after kids. Yeah. Yeah. Getting your cortisol down.

 It's so funny because I don't know if you were there for Dr. Huberman’s keynote. Yes. And he was talking about sauerkraut, but Brian, but I was sitting with my two girlfriends who are of Eastern European descent. They were like, our grandmas were right. They've been trained to shove fermented low glycemic index fermented foods into our mouths since the day we're born. And here we are.

Here we are. I had a patient now. This was so funny. He came to my office and he's like, well, as I said, what are you eating differently? He said, sauerkraut. I was like, oh, that's great on hot dogs. That's OK, all right. I was like, no, this, no. I can't excuse that. I don't know if they can neutralize each other. I can't work on that. So when patients tell me and I'm giving them all these options and they just like, oh, they just still can't do that. I'm right. What can you do? You know what can you do for your brain? Because whatever you're eating, your brain feels it. So if you don't love your gut, you're not loving your brain. And that's where you said earlier, all those mineral changes, neural inflammation. And it makes life harder as we do with natural things. We're all going to age, right? We're all going to have gut problems. We're all going to get neuroinflammation because we're living in this toxic world. None of us are perfect, but how do we make those steps? And I'm telling you, if anybody's listening here and you want to start step one,

 I'm just going to ask you what's step one.

Look at what is the worst thing. If I'm telling you, you've got to love your gut because that loves your brain and the pieces of inflammation, look around your house. Think this week about what you are eating as probably something that doesn't love your brain. And you take one step at a time and you write that down and say, okay, I'm gonna try not to eat X. And then you go to the next one. And then eventually you'll be off sugar. Yeah. You'll be off fast food. You'll be off processed food because you start making these steps. You're like, I didn't know how much better I could feel. I didn't even know how it was feeling bad. You know, even though I'm in your office.

I feel so much better.

So that's always where I start, I say what is, if I'm telling you this, that you go to your gut, you love your brain, what is something at home or something that doesn't look dumb? Exactly. And I want patients like ice cream. I was like, okay. So we made a supplement, a gut supplement froze it. How cool. She put toothpicks in it and her ice cube trays.

Yeah. That's always a treat. That was right. That’s so smart. I always tell patients, What are the things that you have a really hard time letting go of and what can we do as an alternative? And I know you talked about that earlier. And I think that that's just so important, like let's not make it feel like you're suffering. Exactly.

Yeah. Because that can even in a sense cause more neural inflammation. Yes. You know, you just loop and loop and like exactly and you know you start starving yourself, getting less calories. You know, you're traumatic because you can't deal with the term. And then a hormone, right? Cornish is all the time. You're wondering why you're not feeling well. You can't sleep because you're stressed. And so those are the scans when I look at it because I could always tie it back to the brain. It's really fascinating. It’s like okay, I need to fix X, you know? Let me help you out of that. And food is so big in what we do. Gut and food. Because it affects everything. I know if I'm gonna have something terrible I'm going to take my binders because I'm in perimenopause. If not, it's going to be a terrible day. Let me get some glutathione on it.

Yeah, that's true. It's true. Now what would you tell clinicians listening to this podcast? If they're just getting, we probably have seasoned clinicians who've done functional medicine for years or longevity medicine but we've probably got some clinicians that are just dipping their toe in. What would you tell them would be a good place to start if they're going to start looking for neuro-inflammatory issues within their patient populations, and how could they support them? Maybe just simple things that they could do.

So sleep. If you're not sleeping, the body is not healing, so I always tell peri-people, you can only control two things where you live and what you eat, over top of that must be sleep. And that goes back to the things we talked about earlier about the hormone changes and stress. just trying to find that oasis bedroom, your phone's not in your room, you're not sleeping with electronics on. And if that doesn't work, maybe we'll figure out why you're not sleeping and addressing that because if you going through rigorous programs for patients and they're not sleeping, guess what? It's not going to work long term. They're going to be 15 more supplements into the game and still not finding that longevity because sleep is so hard. And that's where the hormones come into play to making sure you're testing for thyroid, for your sex hormones, for vitamin D. For the basic hormones, female male hormones, the whole system because that is the base. Hormone and sleep? Everything else, gut, infection.

We can layer that on.

But I find so many patients who have neuroinformation, insomnia and hormones.

Agree, you know, I see a lot of micronutrient deficiencies in my practice and it's obscene because it's not hard to test. I mean, you could do that with lab core request. Any doctor can do that. Yes. And they just don't look. No. And if you just looked, you could fix that pretty easy. Yes. And then that means so many dividends. And then like you said, you can layer on. But if you can get the foundation right, if you can fill those buckets up, then all your enzyme systems can work better. Exactly. So I feel like there's so much to this field, but there's also some really profound, simple things that clinicians can do. Exactly. And so I think that should give people hope.

It should, and I always tell patients, work hard, forgive yourself. But if you run into anyone's office and they tell you they know everything, run out. And that's what I want the doctors and the new doctors. We don't know everything. This field, this world we're evolving, study, do your best, collaborate with other doctors. That's why I like seeing so many different colleagues, their patient, and through that collaboration because that's how you learn. And you might even learn from your patients right? Absolutely. So be humble enough to say I'm gonna

look into this. Yeah you know. I always tell my patients you can do as much research as you want it does not offend me because there's a lot of doctors that get offended by that and like we are working together and send me the studies you find. I love that you know. Yes. I think to your point and I've I've had this conversation many times at this conference. I think it's arrogant when physicians believe that they know everything. Exactly. And I think that maybe med school hypes us and makes us think that we kind of do and that's kind of the bravado, that we have to employ to get through residency and survive within that system. But it's not true. We don't, there's so much we don't know. And I think it's insulting when doctors make patients feel like so little because they are, they have agency or they're asking deeper questions. I think as physicians we have to always ask more questions. We do. I know some stuff but there's a lot I don't know.

We don't and especially as we're transitioning to this world of of course AI medicine and all that you still have to be careful right and i’ll have patients who will bring studies them like well we have to still do an individualized tailored approach

for you based on your genetics and your trauma, and your labs

and infections and like all the markers in your brain, you know so this is not for everyone. So I always like to tell doctors that if your patients are overwhelming you because I've had patients say I'm in

And kicked out the office because I asked so many questions. You know, just understand they've been suffering and more importantly they are scared. Yeah. At the time they get to our doorstep and they've transitioned to functional medicine. They're frightened because so many people have ignored them. They’ve been dismissed, they've been, so don't do that. And I have sympathy for my colleagues in the system, it's hard to have your, you know, your deck stacked with 40 or 50 patients and you get maybe 3 to 5 good minutes with your patient and they they ask you a hard question like, I have hair loss or I'm fatigued. And it's like, oh great, well that could be about 27 different things, I don't have time for that today. Right? But don't dismiss them and don't just say, well it's probably because you're stressed and you know, you're a woman that's 47 or whatever. Which happens? It does.

And be a clinician. You know, have those questionnaires if you have patients and I have standardized questionnaires, you know, use those to really help you because that will prepare you for that office visit even if it's 30 minutes to an hour. Yeah. That'll make the patient, the appointment go faster, but then you also I prepare. You know, I've prepared an hour and a half before my first patient on all my patients. Yeah, look through all the charts.

 So I have a game plan. Exactly.

But does it go that way? No.

That's the art. Yes. Oh well, I think our time is up, but it's just been such a pleasure to converse with you and talk to you yet to know you better. Can you let everyone know where they can find you and follow you and oh, yeah

This is the best part if you want to keep learning cuz I love teaching doctors can shadow me. Og, amazing. Yeah, I train doctors from all over the world. They shadow me and learn all the weird interesting things I do and sort of look at brain scans They can look at www.amensclinics.com or or WWW in my name, Dr. D-R-E-B-O-N-I-C-O-R-N-I-S-H.com. So simple. I'm also on social media so I do a lot of teaching videos on Instagram and that's dr.ebonicornish, EBONI, Cornish. So those are ways that you can follow me or find out about me. Like I said, the two-week intensive program You know, that's more my resting clinic which is 703 880 4000 and then just learning about brain inflammation. So it doesn't mean you need a SPECT scan like I do so much and I love one of the tools exactly but I love teaching and this is really important not only for you know patients but for providers as well.

Well, it's been such a joy and pleasure to speak with you. I love what you're doing in the world.

Oh thank you and keep doing what you're doing as well.

Thank you, yeah. Well, we'll see you hopefully on the podcast again.

Okay, I'm coming. All right, I love Vibrant. Okay, that's right. Thank you.